So while it may look broken whatever to give a wizard a possibly 20 on a stat it still means (of course assuming you disallow dumping) that he has 8 points left. +1 1st level spell (which ceases to be useful in a few levels) and with statboosters 1 more 2nd and 1 more 3rd level spell (at higher levels) +1 DC which means 5% more damage or effect Seriously, high PB has a tiny effect on SAD classes, it's much more helpful to the MAD classes.Īlso note (with simplified math which is not always right but its good for examples): +12 points from nuking the less important stats. take 10 PB, which is incredibly ridiculously low. Again, it really makes perfect sense when you think about it.Īlso, as an example of just how negligible low PB is on a SAD class. My experiences playing in PF and running and playing in 3E games with high point buys exactly matches your observations. I've found 25 or 30 is around where the two slopes meet, though that's not based on any math - just anecdotal experience, so take it with a grain of salt. MADs have a more gradual upward slope that eventually begins to decline at a similar rate to the SADs. I am forced to accept mediocrity (in relation to other PCs) in areas where I would like to be superb, simply because I don't want to suffer in other areas.Īlso, SADs have a very steep upward slope in terms of power in point buys, until they reach their hard cap on their important stat, at which point the slope inverts and goes downward at a steep rate. However, as a player, I am limited in my design choices with lower point buys. My reasoning is that as a GM, I can modify encounters and daily structure all I want, so after I get a good gauge of the party's abilities, I can challenge them effectively, without outright killing them. My group usually uses 20 (ergo, I don't usually GM). I use higher point buys, usually 25 or 30, when I GM. As people have mentioned, the primary effect of increasing the point buy (in my experience, at least) is that players tend to dumpstat less, and the fact that they often end up with and extra +1 int modifier means that the party's total available skill points rises, so more skills are covered more completely, typically. You can run either kind of game with either point buy, and the small number of extra +1's that the characters have is barely even noticible, much less something that totally changes the tenor of the game.

Using a 25 point buy instead of a 15 point buy doesn't change the game from a game where the heros eke out their survival against desparate odds in a grimy world, always inches from death to a game where the players travel by leaping from the back of one dragon to another, stabbing them in the head as they go. A lot of people use different point buys to try to make the game grittier, or more superheroic, but at the end of the day it's a few extra +1's here and there. In terms of general feel however, I think that the extent to which different point buys affect the way the game feels is generally overblown. If you made me sit down and watch a game where people I knew were playing but you didn't show me thier character sheets, I doubt I could tell with much reliability what point buy they were using unless they were constantly referring to their stats. When we do its because of the concept, not because we need more points.

And the 25 points ensures that no one feels like they need to dump something. It tends to create powerful, but still well rounded characters, while discouraging hyper-optimization. We've got a house rule that you can only have a single 7 or two 8's (so, a -4 point cost limit on dump stats), which works out very well. Personally, I think that's kind of absurd. Otherwise you may get someone playing a level 1 elven wizard with 20 Int, 18 Dex, 14 Con, and 7's in Str/Wis/Cha. Unless you want very high powered PCs I'd recommend limiting their ability to dump stats if you go with 25. It also makes MAD classes like Monks a whole lot easier to stat out. Personally, I enjoy having well-rounded characters, so I like it. Fasthd97 wrote: 25 point buy if you have tried it as a gm or player I want to hear what you thought.We usually use 15 point buys but for my next campaign(the shackles)I was thinking of using 25 point buys so everyone can invest in anutical skills and still do thier normal clases.Ģ5 point buy works fine.

Path finder point buy